Racing with lines

[beco]

I don't want to give disrespect to any driver uses lines. Anyone can use it if he wants. And i understand some guys are used to it or still needs it to learn the tracks.

But I have another Point:
Imagine, you're driving without lines (for those who don't use it: Imagine you're driving like always) you come out a corner much faster than the lap before, you get draft by an opponent driver in front of you, so you drive now 300 km/h instead of 280 km/h (lap before).

And there is no line that says you when to brake, so you use the brake-point you've used the lap before, let's say the 150 m-shield. Really a wonder you will have no chance to get the corner?

Or another example: you just forgot to focus on your brake-point's and you totally *****. Then your Mr. Analyser in you, says you: "WOW, you started to brake when you should already steer-in!"

I don't know how often i had such faults. Too much to count it, that's for sure. But i don't want to miss any of them. It's such a good feeling to know you can make one of 'these' (caused of no lines) faults every next corner if you're not focused/concentrated.

And again, i don't want to blame anyone using lines or starting argue about advantage/disadvantage in your perfomance.
I want to argue with the 'race feeling'. I think you miss a part of what racing is about if you drive without.

What do you think?

PS: Sorry, if it's too bad language. I've tried hard.

[Jake242]

I know what you mean..... you have to consider the fact that its a game also...... and like in most games........ its more fun to be able to compete for something.....rather than finishing last.

the line makes people who does not have so much time to learn all the do's and don'ts and all the breaking points....... sure its much more rewarding if you can drive without

I drive with lines and always has in forza......... it was there and I got used to it.

you still have to know breaking points.........and angles.
the line tells you where the shortest way is and how much you need to apply the brakes in order to get safe around....... it by no mean tell you how to get fastest around the corner

what you talk about beco can be gained by simply taking the abs off.........same thrill of making a mistake

but most people use the abs........

I would say that 95% people use abs and 80% use the line

in top 1000 drivers in the world maybe only 30% uses the line

since it really comes down to who is the best driver........and with that the line isn't that helpful

you can still make mistakes with the line........ and you still have to figure out what is the fastest way through a corner........since the line is not telling you that(its only saying which is the shortest.........if that)

in a racing situation the line is even more non-rewarding....... since it cuts through racing lines......... only thing it can be used for is braking

what it comes down to is:

what is your goal...... to win or be among the best
or just have a good racing experiance....... not everyone can combine the two...........only a few selected can.

Jake~

[beco]

But think of reality and compare the different race series you have to each other.

In some series you have ABS, in some not. It's technical, not ideal. It's given by the rulez of the series.

But what is the essential driver job? What have all series together because it's part of the racing idea? Yeah, its braking, steering, accelerating.

And i think you miss a part of the essential driver job. Maybe the formulation sounds too hard...

[Jake242]

I beg to differ, the racing line and braking line visual is pretty much what a racedriver sees when experianced enough

michael schumacher knows exactly where to break and where to turn........... why?

cuz he has been driving for 30 years

the line makes bad drivers decent, decent drivers good and good drivers excellent

excellent drivers on the other hand won´t gain much on it since the line is 100%

beco you have won 95% of all races you have entered simply because you are better....

the times set in the leaderboards don´t really show whos generally faster.........only who can set a good time with everything perfect.

sure we miss out by using the line, and I will try to play forza 2 without it

but if it ends up meaning that I will lose all the time.......... I will put it back on

Jake~

[joker]

I use the line too, but not really as a 'tramline', I try to find my own way around the track.
For me the line acts as a guide as to where I should be using caution and not the brakes. There are many, many corners within each track that do not require braking but do need either acceleration controlled or steady turning, although I'm far from the fastest racer on this board (or indeed on Forza) I do try and keep my throttle under control.
When I first started playing Forza I used all assists, through offline challenges I learned that TCS and STM was adding at least five whole seconds per lap, It took quite some time to actually keep traction through just throttle control for me. Now all I use is the usual ABS and the line, with so many cars and settings it's hard for me not to use it.

Like Jake though I will try my hardest not to get into such a loving relationship with the line in Forza2, in fact if they took away the line it would be better for all, but what I have seen so far in the Forza2 details is that this time around the line will be more user controlled, standard like in Forza or so that the line only appears when braking is totally neccessary, how well that will work is yet to be seen. For some reason though I feel that I may use the line just as much as in Forza although I don't want to.

[beco]

Yeah Jake, i can follow your points. Obviously, we have just different ways to view on it. And maybe i would like to miss the 'race feeling' without lines, if i would be more competitive with it, i don't know.

Actually i'd say: the line confuses me more than it helps me. It's like i have to concentrate on one more thing than i'm used to.

- - -

Schumacher must be really genius if he sees coloured lines on the track only with his mind power. CHEATER! ;D

[Jake242]

its doesn't confuse me at all.......... its like a peripheral view, you don't really see it........ you notice it.

you take your own line around, and basically the guideline just lets you know when you have "breaked" enough

what I mean with schumacher is that his "feel" for the track is similar to knowing all breakpoints at all speeds and all angles of entry

I must admit when I race that I breake when I see the line is red.......a little before or a little after.........what the line does is pretty much just telling you where the breakpoint is at a certain speed in a certain car

you can achieve that by spending 100 hours on the game....

your experiance with forza and other racing games has given you a "mental guide line" beco

the rest of us need the line in order to follow you

Jake~

[renthal]

I feel like the biggest difference for me personally with the help lines is consistency. It's possible for me to run very fast times without the lines, however, I can't do it lap after lap. It becomes especially difficult when the braking points dissappear because of overzealous drivers. It can also be quite difficult to see much of anything in front when one is using the bumper views. Especially when some cars have very low bumper views.

As Jake/Joker have stated, the lines are more of a general guideline and are not necessarrily the fastest way through a section as many of the lines do not follow the proper apex point of the corner.

It would probably be best if Forza 2 had an option controlled by the moderator to allow lines, views, etc.